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Tuesday 25 October 2016

High Court quashes Parole Board refusal to recommend open conditions for prisoners subject to an indefinite sentence.

 

21 October 2016

 
A successful judicial review has established that the Parole Board’s refusal to recommend the transfer of a prisoner subject to an indefinite sentence for public protection was irrational. The claimant was represented by James Mehigan of Garden Court Chambers.
 
The Parole Board has been found to have acted irrationally in R (on the application of Ian Mordecai) v Parole Board [2016] EWHC 2601 (Admin). The Claimant is serving an indefinite sentence for public protection for making threats to kill. He is some three years over his two-year minimum term. The Parole Board’s decision was criticised for placing too much reliance on an old psychologist’s report when both the offender supervisor and offender manager recommended a transfer to open conditions.

Judge Elizabeth Cooke also considered the way in which the Parole Board had viewed the Claimant’s attempts at suicide. She stated that ‘the level of suicidal tendency among prisoners serving IPP is high. The reasons for that are obvious. If a Parole Board panel is to regard that very tendency as a reason not to transfer them to open conditions, the panel must take great care to explain why it takes that view’.

The refusal to recommend a transfer to open conditions was quashed and returned to the Parole Board for a fresh decision.

The case received regional media coverage.
The claimant, Ian Mordecai, was represented by James Mehigan, a member of the Garden Court Public Law and Prison Law Team. He was instructed by Malcolm Tebb of Kesar & Co Solicitors.


https://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/high-court-quashes-parole-board-refusal-to-recommend-open-conditions/

Friday 21 October 2016

IPP, IPP Conference facts & figures and are we taking one step forward and one step back?”

 


AMIMB  IPP conference October 11th 2016
 
Ann Horton
Sara Beebeejaun  and I accompanied the amazing Katherine Gleeson to speak at the IMB,s AGM and annual conference about the impact of the ipp sentence on the families.im sure that Katherine or Sara will tell you more about how we got on, but I though i.d share some of the facts and figures that Nick Hardwick presented in his talk soon after us.
1. The parole board will work with partners to ensure that by the end of 2017 the majority of IPP prisoners will have been safely released or have a clear plans to place that will enable them to progress
2. A submission has been made to minister to allow the PB to recruit 100 members (* to reduce the back log and delays in hearing more quickly.
3. There are currently 3,898 IPP still in prison according to the recent figures.
4. The release rate is up from 12% when IPP was first introduce, to38%, but 891% of ipp are now post-tarriff, and 83% of them are in closed conditions
Nick Hardwick also acknowledged that recalls are a huge problem, and highlighted the fact that recall system is currently  too prescriptive so often does not allow for common sense approach to minor misdemeanours. 

 

 

Katherine Gleeson

Nick Hardwick presented an impressive solution to the IPP licence in his power point presentation.  He gave a personal thank you for bringing the letters and emails on behalf of ipp prisoners, and the families and friends.He has passed this information on to the minister. The flowers representing each ipp prisoner left out after out lobby / demonstration they have ben brough from ourside in side and displayed in the minstery of justice parole building.

  • The   continued an current problems with offender managers a tip of the  problem . “Prisoner are still having their release dates set back:

  • Not writing release planes in an approved manner resulting in delays.

  • Officer’s mangers not turning up at hearings resulting in delays.

  • Those who have release held in cells  because they can’t find a hostel are being delayed. 

  • Deferred due to a panel member not being available.

  • Parole adjourned.

  "Are we taking one step forward and one step back?”

 

Kinloch, IPP prisoner OCTOBER 2016
He wrote of his release how existed he was finally I am going to be released . A week later he wrote they have delayed my release, im barely hanging on but for my mum’s words. 

The offender manger sent off his release plan the Parole Board sent back to the offending officer his release plan lack information required.  He then was informed by his offender officer I don’t have time to write another sentence plan at short notice; such his release was delayed until next year, March.

"Nick Hardwick in his Howard League Parmoor lecture, states without “a very substantial increase in staffing levels” ambitious government plans to improve rehabilitation and education or tackle extremism “are simply not achievable”.

 

I have enclosed facts and  figures  by the AMIMB

 





 





 


 
 
 Helen AMIMB
Hi Katherine a big thank you to you, Ann and Saira for sharing your experience of living with the ipp sentence to the AMIMB AGM. I know it can’t be easy to say some of these things to an unknown audience but I know from the feedback received how the message that we, as monitors, need to closely monitor, and raise questions with the governors about what we see.
Many thanks again,
Helen AMIMB
 
 
 
 
 

Government must find solution for open-ended sentences

Change the release test and remove 'life licences' to remedy 'seriously flawed system', say prison reform charities    
The government must end the 'toxic legacy' of open-ended sentences for current and former prisoners who are still being punished by the 'manifestly unfair' repealed law, leading prison law experts have said.
Introduced in 2005, indeterminate sentences of imprisonment for public protection (IPPs) were abolished in 2012 after being used more widely than intended. However, over 4,100 IPP prisoners remain in custody - about 5 per cent of the total prison population - unable to prove they are safe for release.
Professor Nick Hardwick, the chair of the Parole Board, recently suggested a revision of the risk test so that prisoners will only remain detained if the Parole Board can provide evidence they pose a danger to the public; a reversal of the burden of proof.
 
Juliet Lyon, the director of the Prison Reform Trust (PRT), told Solicitors Journal that 'changing the release test would be a welcome step towards ending [the IPP system's] toxic legacy'.
'The burden of proof needs to rest with the state, demonstrating that a person presents a real risk to the public if they are to be refused release. Proving a negative - that you won't reoffend if released - for many is an almost impossible task.'
 
Frances Crook, the chief executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform, said the proposal was a 'sensible, level-headed and just reform' in her blog for the charity.
'We cannot continue to incarcerate thousands of people because of something they might do. It is manifestly unfair and it is causing chaos inside prisons as people are caged for years past the date they expected to be released with no end in sight.'
 
Pete Weatherby QC of Garden Court North Chambers, who has been involved in IPP cases since the system's inception, said: 'Prisoners would be released much more effectively and swiftly and we would not be in the appalling position that we are in now where, in effect, prisoners are kept in administrative, arbitrary detention, arguably unlawfully.'
 
Professor Hardwick's comments came just months after the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Thomas, sitting in the Court of Appeal (Criminal Division), said it was up to parliament to correct the current system.
More pressure had been applied in December 2014, when the UK Supreme Court held that all indeterminate sentence prisoners must be given a reasonable opportunity to reform themselves and demonstrate their safety for release throughout their detention under article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
Lord Mance and Lord Hughes denounced the 'seriously flawed system of IPP' that was introduced 'without sufficient funding to cope with it'.
 
According to Lyon, 'the effect of Parole Board delays, limited resources, poor procedures for managing risk, and a lack of available places on offending behaviour programmes' have left IPP prisoners being held for years beyond their original tariff without knowing when they will be released.
A recent PRT report revealed that people serving an IPP have one of the highest rates of self-harm in the prison system. Figures showed that for every 1,000 people serving an IPP, there were 550 incidents of self-harm. This compared with 324 incidents for people serving a determinate sentence, and is more than twice the rate for people serving life sentences.
 
Professor Hardwick also posited that executive action could be taken to release IPP prisoners who have now served longer than the maximum current sentence for their offence.
Lyon went further, saying that discredited sentences could be converted into an equivalent determinate sentence, with a clear release date, and full support provided to people returning to their communities.
'Doing so would reintroduce fairness and proportionality into sentencing and consign our most unjust and ill-conceived sentence to the history books, once and for all,' she said.
However, Weatherby QC warned that while virtually all of the IPP prisoners would be released, 'a small number of prisoners who remain a risk would be released contrary to the intention of the legislature at the time of their sentencing'.
 
The Howard League also called for the 'life licence' given to prisoners sentenced to an IPP upon release to be abolished. Although it can be lifted after ten years upon request, Crook said a fixed period of supervision of two years would suffice, with the possibility of a further year if the secretary of state deemed it was required for public safety.
 
Weatherby QC agreed and said that having IPP prisoners on life licences was a 'huge squandering of resources', but stressed that the focus should be on sorting out the detention issue before going on to deal with the licences.
 

 

Thursday 6 October 2016

IPP PRISONERS , dont give up hope

 
 
Don’t give up hope
 
I am a ‘2-strike’ lifer who has now been in prison for thirteen-and-a-half years, eight years over tariff, and I have remained a category B prisoner the whole time.
The European Court of Human Rights said that the 2-strike Act was inhumane and arcane, and this resulted in the British government fundamentally changing this law and giving it a makeover and a new name – IPP. Unfortunately, prisoners under this law still did not have a release date and very little hope of getting out.
What about the over 3,000 prisoners that are still in prison and over tariff under the 2-strike Act? I urge 2-strikers to write to me as I have a good legal team and we are trying to put together a Class Action in the High Court to challenge our sentence. Finally, to all the lads stuck in DSPD units, and to my main man Johnny Wallace stuck in Long Lartin block, do not give up hope, your day will come!
 
 
 

The forgotten few
I am a 2-striker, who was sentenced as a young offender, and my tariff expired 11 years ago. Recently I decided to make a Freedom of Information request to the Ministry of Justice asking them how many other 2-strike lifers were sentenced to this draconian and inhumane sentence as young offenders. I was horrified to find out I was one of only 13 other young offenders. I bet there are not that many people out there who know that 13 young lads are languishing in prison into their 30s or 40s for crimes they committed as teenagers.
The Judge who sentenced me for GBH said he would have given me a fixed term sentence of 8 years but he had to give me a 2-strike life sentence with a 3 year, 4-month tariff. I have now served the equivalent of a 28-year prison sentence. Surely we should be fighting for the release of 2-strikers?
 
 
McSherry They do to others as they wouldnt have done to themselves.....the state has failed the people...we want a new state of real justice and real distribution of wealth and opportunity.....the government and monarchy lost respect of the people for there fornicating luciferian ways......this state is bullshit.
 
 
Hall
 
Ipp sentenced prisoners "risk assesment" to satisfy the parole board... So called dangerous offenders or (rather were) to meet the governors statutory test before release can be directed by a parole board........The test is to satisfy the board that to is no longer nessesary for the protection of the public .. That they. Continue to be confined , by way of causing... harm through specified offending.....Risk of reoffending was and still is treated as being a separate risk factor to "the risk of causing harm". But they are one of the same thing, risk of reoffending that could cause harm through offending if an offence was committed again. this means is only worded differently.....Myself and many thousands of prisoners have suffered as a result there "RISK OF HARM". level being too high to be considered for release by a parole board. This has been going on since (1998 act). This is the equivalent to many years of unlawful detention, because risk of harm has been treated as a super ate risk factor to risk of reoffending All this time! Who has been applying-enforcing-interpreting. This wrongly !!! The courts. Parolebooard. Probation. Prison service. All official departments of Justice concerned with RISK to the public...that has impacted on prisoners being detained, and licence alike....(.This is the mother of all cock ups). And a nationwide scandal, compensation could cost millions. In compensation and investigations for a long period of time to come.........
 
 
Parishwasbruce

So my brother has got his parole today in which his inside parole officer and his solicitor are backing him for release he has been in there 10 years and still not heard anything it's so frustrating.

 
Owen An MP not listening to a member of his constituents. I think I would have to write to his/her boss in that case. If he or she is a conservative MP then write to Margret Thatcher, oh sorry 😃Theresa May, I keep getting the two confused.If they are not conservative then write to the party leader explaining that your letters are going unanswered. You will get a reply then, I'd put money on it. . Don't let them get away with ignoring you, the pen is mightier than the sword
 
 
Owen  A brave man told me once that living with an ipp is like being buried alive and waiting for your body to stop breathing. Sadly his died. He was over tarrif and to ill to do the courses. Persecution is what you and your brother are suffering from. Keep writing letters, everytime you do you make them pay for keeping him in there. Pick them up on every point they make in their replies. Make it clear that your right to a family life is being engaged because there is no end date. It's agony behind a locked door every night but its also painful for all those family members waiting for them to come out too. The justice secretary needs to be reminded everyday or she will simply look the other way .Find your local MPs details, on Google. Use google to find out which Diocese you come under for the church of England. Remember the Church of England  has weight, it has an influence on government policy. With regard to the NPS. You need to know which region you come under. Take your time drafting your letters. Keep them to the point. Everyone knows where the queen lives Buckingham Palace,Sw1 1AA.Find your local MPs details, on Google. Use google to find out which Diocese you come under for the church of England. Remember the Church of England has weight, it has an influence on government policy. With regard to the NPS. You need to know which region you come under. Take your time drafting your letters. Keep them to the point. Everyone knows where the queen lives  Buckingham Palace,Sw1 1AA.
 
 
Zing
I am an ipp known as a 5826aj , I have seen several people attempt to kill themselves from the psychological distress of i.p.p, i have known people who succeed in killing themselves because of this sentence. I have worked with many prisoners at Hmp Wellingborough as a Listener counselling prisoners for Samaritans, and can attest to the extreme psychological distress that i.p.p’s are feeling on behalf of myself and others i have listened to. Incidents of self harm are common, attempting suicide is an incident of self harm, if unsuccessful, that is why the high rate of self harm is cause for concern.

The sentence acts as a two-tier system where i.p.p are different and treated harsher with more pressure as their liberty is much more at stake compared to other prisoners around them. Our liberty is dependent on someone's opinion of what will happen in the future, clearly it causes psychological distress to i.p.p’s, many of whom did not know this sentence existed before they were sentenced, yet it was intended as a deterrent.

One of My biggest concern is the labelling of psychopaths for very young i.p.p’s .
This sentence is arbitrary, it is indeterminate and a two-tier system, this creates isolation together with helplessness.The number of young minor offenders wrongly given an indeterminate sentence is high.
Most of the people who are not able to be here to deliver a impact statement would give a better one than me.  . There is a high rate of recall, this is for even more minor offences like being late for probation more than 2 or three times, missing an appointment, not informing probation of work venue, an impossibility if work requires travel to different locations.

As well as the majority who are locked up, there are a lot who are too angry, stressed and traumatised to express how they feel. The impact statement that was asked for was extremely divisive, it required attendance in central london, most can't get there. I was willing to deliver a speech however I have been told that I must stick to the remit this is all regarding what I have gone through, it focuses only on me and what i’ve gone through. I am not free to make negative comments regarding the ineffectiveness of my own treatment as an ipp, as that is a potential recall.
 
Isolation and helplessness are two important factors for psychological torture. People who are blindfolded in torture are more likely to break (the blindfold creates helplessness), and the arbitrary nature of this sentence acts as a psychological blindfolded (not knowing how late your parole board will be creates helplessness along with the uncertainty of sentence length). I waited about 3 years between my second and third parole board, (maximum knockbacks two years) before my first I was told I had completed all relevant programmes by a senior psychologist, I have never had a nicking or failed a drug test either mdt or vdt i did almost 100 in gartree alone. But I completed 7 years and 3 parole before release, I did complete a lot more courses and complete a degree along the way physics and mathematics open university. The open university did a lot more to rehabilitate me, than everyone else combined.

I worked for £12 a week for an outside business that subcontracts work to hmp wellingborough, this was after my tariff and courses so was therefore an arbitrary length of slavery. Whilst there I studied during lunch, and back in my cell all my waking hours, most of association time, and late into the night as at times I could spend 2 days reading a page even things that were not complicated. I am dyslexic and have adhd but that is unusually long period of time.

Psychological torture works on another level in this same sentence. The stress position used in torture, is created by the sentence through the lack of places on courses. The courses are realistically needed for release, statistics prove this, and parole boards have repeatedly refused prisoners for completion of courses.

Ordinarily there would be a distance between the courses and parole to monitor the impact over a period of, the monitoring was no different it is just an increased incarceration, during that vulnerable period. It is more vulnerable because psychologist's are told to use the words monitoring or give some extra targets to complete after. These are so designed so that you feel you are being monitored more closely or have to use the course. So that you become more vulnerable in prison. It is clear to all I.p.p’s that you can no longer be angry or stressed after a course addressing that very thing.
 
 Perhaps a impact statement should be taken from him or his family have they been asked,  Explain what happens when they believe they will not experience empathy, throughout their 20’s when their frontal lobe is still developing? Well they are creating more people who wrongly believe they are psychopaths for perhaps a lifetime, if it finishes developing and they still believe this is I give them little to no way out.

I'm not allowed to have any contact with any I.p.p’s now because this is actually against my life licence to contact criminals in my past (I have no co-defendants, this is my first offence I pleaded guilty yet this condition is there) so there is a psychological pressure for me not to continue to discuss I.p.p or prisoners rights, due to this condition.
 
Another issue is that long term prisoners and lifers have a much lower reconviction rate compared to those with smaller sentences, according to inside times the reconviction rate for lifers tends to stay around 1-2%. What parole and probation are doing is fabricating evidence in order to abuse human rights violent reoffending is 15 times higher in prison than outside. That proves no ipp is easier to manage inside than out. All ipp’s and our families know this. They can be better managed in the community also a less violent and dehumanising environment, why are so many still behind bars?
 
In prison there were more than 20,000 assaults with six homicides in the 12 months to April 2016. According to the telegraph. The homicide rate is much higher also in prison indicating more seriousness to violence inside. 85,400 population of prisoners in England and Wales 2016

0.2341920375 is therefore the violent offending per prison population in England and Wales 2016. The rate of reported assaults is thus 15.3183901872 greater in prison compared to England and Wales in 2016 April.
 Of most stressful situations imprisonment, and moving house and family relationships are the main stressful life events, I.p.p’s are moved around prisons a lot for courses. Shaun Beasley killed himself when they moved him to a prison to do a course however the course was not available, all the stress factors in the design have been know to the ruling class for many decades. His blood  and many others like him are on the hands of  those. 

Parole boards are deliberately undertrained and unprepared one parole board member asked my probation officer if there was anything going on between us, this was due to my probation officer recommending release, is this acceptable this level of preparedness especially given the superhuman task of predicting the future? She clearly worked out her line of questioning based on a TV drama about an affair between a  probation officer and an ex-offender that was on at the time.

They are saying we will release 1500 ipps next year this is proof that the quota system exists as it is a quota. A quota does exist so parole boards are not independent, which is what we've been saying all along so why has this quota not been used before this.

 Also more people are likely to be released in the first few months of the year, and even really good cases where they should be released are refused at the end of the year, making delays very stressful, I wanted my parole near the start of the year so i stood a better chance of release, if my delay looked as though it would drag until late in the year i would be very stressed, indeed when it was moved from december to april i was happy.

There has always been a quota and it has not been used, older lifers have been saying it, it is noticeable just following severity of offending and parole outcome.

Regarding violent offenses you are much more likely to commit one or get caught up in one inside. Most offenders serve short sentences which are ineffective, this is a large part of the data for Oasys. Oasys should be abandoned it is loaded, it does not change with length or courses, this would save alot of probation officers time and the government money.
I'm still isolated outside. People don't even believe this sentence could exist here, a lot of people looked down on me thinking I must have done a lot to serve 7 years out of a 2. People think i'm a terrorist as I cannot travel out of Leicestershire and I am not allowed on planes, it is much harder to get a job, social isolation.

This license is arbitrary and the conditions are unnecessary harsh. That is psychological torture still, having an arbitrary sentence or arbitrary licence is psychological torture on top of the social cost I will always pay for having a criminal record that won't be spent. It is always legal to refuse me from a job because of my sentence ,as it is always unspent, I am never protected under the law in terms of employment for the rest of my life. I cannot get a job that involves travel, I cannot write a letter or email to mps for lobby groups without prior permission.

It is classed as paid or unpaid work (charity or lobby) which I cannot do without prior permission.
I am restricted from contact with ipp's i cannot write letters to MP’s or Lords as this is a breach of license, I must ask for permission.
 
 Lifer or IPP
It’s like a never ending story, or maybe a never ending dream
If you’re doing mandatory life, or IPP, you wanna scream
They set us all a tariff, it very rarely comes on time
You’d done three times your tariff, that warranted that crime
You say you’re going to sort it out, we’re still sat here waiting
Each more year goes by, we only end up hating
So why say you’re going to do it, if it’s just a pack of lies?
Slowly but surely, we lose the outside ties
Soon we’ll be left with no-one, is that all you’ve ever wanted?
Sitting lonely in your prison cell, feeling unjustly tortured and taunted
This will probably fall on deaf ears, or eyes that don’t look
I’m running out of ink, by writing all this mush
I write this for lifers, but does anybody care?
I write down these words, your sentences are unfair
It’s now time to let us out, you can do it bit by bit
Or most of us out, or all in one hit
Whichever way you do it, things have got to change
The longer we stay in, the more the outside gets strange
It’s now time to go, so will you please have a thought
Before you make up these sentences, think before they come to court
 
BBC October 2016. 
 Prisoner resettlement scheme raises concerns
 
A flagship government policy to support and supervise inmates leaving jail has been severely criticised by inspectors.
The chief inspectors of probation and prisons for England and Wales said the "Through the Gate" scheme for offenders serving prison terms of less than 12 months was failing to find them jobs.
In some cases the public was being put at risk, their joint report said.
Ministers said a review of the reforms set up by Chris Grayling when he was justice secretary was taking place.
The 2014 overhaul aimed to help provide short-sentence prisoners with a mentor, a place to stay and training or a job.
All prisoners sentenced to terms of a year or less are now subject to 12 months of supervision on release.
High-risk offenders come under the supervision of the National Probation Service, with the remaining work assigned to 21 newly-created Community Rehabilitation Companies (CRCs).
But of 86 offenders whose cases were examined in detail by inspectors, the report said only a minority had found accommodation through the scheme, just one had been assigned a mentor, and none had secured employment.
"Public protection work around short sentence prisoners is weak, and this is a systemic problem," they said.

'Vital reforms'

While the picture was more positive for women leaving prison, the report said many probation officers held "an almost fatalistic acceptance of the likelihood of failure".
The inspectors recommended ministers should review the contractual requirements to "better incentivise CRCs to develop their approach to the successful resettlement of prisoners".
HM Chief Inspector of Probation Dame Glenys Stacey said: "There is still the potential for change that government and others wish to see.

"But turning prisoners' lives around is difficult, and success in individual cases is not guaranteed, even when everything possible is done, particular for those with mental illness or addictions."
Justice Minister Sam Gyimah said: "We are already carrying out a comprehensive review of our probation reforms to improve outcomes for offenders and communities."
He added: "Public protection is our top priority and we will not hesitate to take the necessary action to make sure our vital reforms are being delivered to reduce re-offending.
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 

 



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

IPP CONFRANCE 11 OCTOBER LONDON, SPEAKING........

 
 
 
Further Attendees/speakers

2 Ben Constance,Given a Ipp Sentence now released .
3 Ann Horton, Ipp Grandson in prison.
4 Saira Beebeejaun, Ipp partner on recall.
 

IPP, As a long-term prisoner, I was frequently on wings and landings when fellow prisoners took their own lives. My first-ever article for the Guardian in 1998 was about the impact that such deaths have. There were 1,247 prison suicides in the 20 years I served before my release in 2004, according to figures from the charity Inquest.


These days death is even more prevalent in our prisons. In the 12 months to June this year there were 321 prison fatalities. With 74 more than during the same period the previous year, it was the highest toll ever recorded in England and Wales. Of these, 105 were self-inflicted, 186 were recorded as death from natural causes, (although since the average age in the case of such deaths is 56 it suggests that these might not be just “natural”) – and at least five were prisoner-on-prisoner killings. Twenty-five other deaths are still waiting to be classified. As well as the record deaths, last year there were on average 160 cell fires a month, more than 34,000 instances of self-harm and an almost trebling of incidents involving violence.
 
So how does the IAP plan to bring about a reduction in deaths? Lyon says: “A priority is to learn from bereaved families and people who have attempted suicide in custody and survived.” She says that just before we met she spoke to a mother whose son had been killed in prison. “If the state deprives you of your liberty, the one thing it has an obligation to do is to keep you safe. The high rate of deaths currently indicate that something is going terribly wrong.”
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The IAP, an independent arms-length body, set up in 2008 on the recommendation of the Fulton review into deaths in custody advises ministers from the Home Office, the Department of Health and the Ministry of Justice. Its remit is to “act as the primary source of independent advice to ministers and service leaders on measures to reduce the number and rate of deaths in custody”.
While deaths in police and immigration custody have remained constant and decreased in the case of those detained under the Mental Health Act the increase in prison deaths is a particular concern. “What you can see from the figures,” says Lyon, “is that the work the Prison Service did from about 2007 on safer custody was pretty effective. There was an intense concentration on how to make prison safer, particularly on how to reduce suicide. Safer custody teams in all prisons, working closely with the Samaritans and Samaritans-trained ‘prisoner listeners’ led to quite a drop in self-inflicted deaths.
“Few people know that almost 2,000 prisoners, trained by local Samaritans, now work day and night in almost every prison across England, Scotland and Wales to support people in need. Nothing else does as much to show how much responsibility and care people in prison can shoulder and to save countless lives.”
 
The IAP, she says, will focus on clusters of deaths in particular prisons and look at how to reduce high numbers of natural deaths in custody. “We’ll also be briefing ministers on evidence and solutions to the distressing rise in the deaths of women in prison, 11 in the year to June 2016 compared to one death the year before – and on the particular vulnerability of people still serving the long-abolished indeterminate sentence for public protection (IPP). We have to really be prepared to work across departments to find solutions, but we can set and monitor guidelines.”
 
The justice secretary Liz Truss has declared very publicly that she wants to make prison safety her priority and when she was home secretary, Theresa May gave a speech supporting the joint PRT and Women’s Institute Care not Custody campaign to stop vulnerable people ending up in police or prison cells. But prison staff cuts, the massive increase in the use of new psychoactive substances – so-called “legal highs” – and general overcrowding has meant that prison regimes have become more and more limited.

Does she agree with the Samaritans that the cuts are largely responsible for the rise in prison deaths? “The causes are complex,” she says, “but sucking hope out of the system has taken a terrible toll. Research and best practice show that good staff-prisoner relations, personal officer work, information-sharing with other disciplines, mental healthcare and constructive regimes with time out of cell, contact with family and friends and something to work towards all make a positive difference.”
She says she welcomes the opportunity and the responsibility to help reduce deaths in custody. “When someone takes their own life it is hard to describe, or even imagine, the despair that has led to it or the pain of loved ones left behind. If you talk to anyone charged with the care of people who are detained, they never forget a death in custody – it’s like swallowing a stone that never goes away.” She says she had lots of misgivings about giving an interview so early in her new role.
But as long as it goes beyond a day in the papers and serves as a firm reminder of the state’s duty to protect life and the pressing need to make prisons safer then it will be worth it.”








 


Release IPP prisoners       politics

word press.com
 
Paul Chambers Was convicted for armed robbery years ago. He was originally sentenced by Cardiff crown court to serve 7 years and released on IPP which is basically license for life. So where as the average man would drink and drive and get fined and banned, an IPP prisoner would go straight to prison with no release date in sight and maybe up to 5 years before a glimmer of hope. May I just confirm Paul Chambers has never been arrested for drink driving. IPP has been abolished now because judges were throwing the sentences at everyone with violent charges whether one off or not. but still the prisoners are on license. Please help release these prisoners. Paul Chambers is now in prison with no sight of a release date after 10 months for disagreeing with his probation officer. That is a ridiculous sentence with too much power at the probation officers hands. Please sign this petition. 
In England and Wales, the imprisonment for public protection (IPP) sentence was a form of indeterminate sentence introduced by s.225 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (with effect from 2005) and abolished in 2012. It was intended to protect the public against criminals whose crimes were not serious enough to merit a normal life sentence but who were regarded as too dangerous to be released when the term of their original sentence had expired. It is composed of a punitive “tariff” intended to be proportionate to the gravity of the crime committed and an indeterminate period which commences after the expiration of the tariff and lasts until the Parole Board judges the prisoner no longer poses a risk to the public and is fit to be released.[1] The equivalent for under-18s was called detention for public protection, introduced by s. 226 of the 2003 Act. The sentences came into effect on 4 April 2005.[2]
Although there is no limit to how long prisoners can be detained under IPPs, and some may never be released, they may be released on review; an IPP sentence is not a sentence of life imprisonment with a whole-life tariff.
In 2007 the Queen’s Bench Division of the High Court ruled that the continued incarceration of prisoners serving IPPs after tariff expiry where the prisons lack the facilities and courses required to assess their suitability for release was unlawful,[3] bringing up concern that many dangerous offenders would be freed.[4] In 2010 a joint report by the chief inspectors of prisons and probation concluded that IPP sentences were unsustainable with UK prison overcrowding.[5]

In 2012 the IPP sentence for new cases was abolished by the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act, although over 6,000 prison inmates remained imprisoned for public protection;[6][7] over 4,600 remained as of June 2015. Three-quarters of them had completed their minimum term, and about 400 had served five times the minimum. The government’s policy was that IPP prisoners should remain in prison until it is deemed that the risks they pose if released are manageable.[8]
 
 
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/05/juliet-lyon-state-liberty-safe-deaths-custody

Saturday 1 October 2016

As previously mentioned some 27.00 families sent a letter through 38 Degrees requesting a response from Liz Truss, the families received no response. Her obvious disregard for prisoners and there family is distressing and infuriating, they need answers. The IPP sentence is a major injustice current in the media however Liz Truss agenda failed to mention IPP prisoners in her agenda though there is a coronary inquest into the staggering amount of IPP prisoner’s deaths.


In her first appearance before the Justice Select Committee last month since taking over the role from Michael Gove in July, Liz Truss Justice Secretary  cast a shadow of uncertainty over the government’s much heralded prison reform agenda. She appeared to be unaware of many of the key issues facing her department and her performance was later derided as “lacklustre” by parliamentary colleagues. Labour MP for Cardiff Central and Shadow Justice Minister Jo Stevens was present as the Justice Secretary was quizzed and described her performance as “absolutely shambolic.”

Time for an honest conversation on prison reform, says Shadow Justice Minister Jo Stevens. “There are too many people in prison”

Stevens described the Justice Secretary Liz Truss’s appearance in front of the Justice Select Committee when she was questioned about the bill by Conservative MP Bob Neil as, “absolutely shambolic.” Was it really that bad? “Yes,” she says without hesitation. “I don’t want to be personal. But if you’ve taken on the brief, you’re the new Justice Secretary, you’re up before the Justice Select Committee with a Conservative chair, you certainly should be prepared. You should know your brief. She had the whole summer to get to grips with it. It was just excruciating I thought.”

So is it more the case then that the problem was that Liz Truss just hadn’t quite got her head around the whole prison reform agenda, including the bill that was initiated by her predecessor Michael Gove?

“When Bob Neil asked her about the prison reform bill, he was clearly taken aback by her response. I didn’t know if she had just misheard the question, of if she just made a mistake. But we came out of that hearing and we were no clearer about what it is that’s going to happen.”

But Liz Truss did tell the Committee that she had “plans.”

But Liz Truss did tell the Committee that she had “plans.” Although she said she was “not committing” to specific legislation as proposed by Michael Gove, she said her own plans, which she would be announcing in the autumn, had to be, “deliverable.” “I am working on a delivery plan at the moment which we do not currently have,” she told Neil.

Stevens smiles. “Oh there are plans. There are lots of things she’s looking at. But in her evidence to the Committee when she was asked about specific points, thirty nine times she said, ‘I’m looking at that.’ There were no specific answers. And yet in the Queen’s speech the prison reform bill was the flagship piece of legislation for this year. So it’s really disappointing. I was very critical of Michael Gove in terms of delivery but I do believe he was a reformist. He talked a good talk. But actually nothing really happened. I hoped that Liz Truss would also be a reformist, because I just think that for too long governments of all colours have treated prison policy in isolation. For me, prison policy is an integral part of our education policy, our health policy and all sorts of socio-economic factors. Equalities – how black and ethnic minority people are disproportionately represented in prison, how women prisoners are treated and the difference between the approach in the justice system towards women and men. You have to look at prison policy across the board.”

In fairness I point out, the changes Michael Gove proposed were huge. The people who work and live in our prisons are completely aware that the system has been a bloated, unwieldy entity for several decades and to effect real change will take time. Gove was the first senior politician for a long time who was prepared to stand up and say radical change is needed. For many people the prison system in this country has been a source of shame for too long. Was Stevens broadly in agreement with Gove? “I was looking at it as a broader issue. We would need to see exactly what they were going to do. So they’re building new prisons, they were going to sell off some prison land, get rid of some aging prisons, but we still don’t have any information on that. I mean these new reform prisons that are supposed to be being built – well I mean these builders that are going to get them all built by 2020, I’d quite like them to come around my house because I can’t get builders to work that quickly.”

Were the government’s plans too ambitious does she think? “I just think they are setting expectations that they are not going to be able to deliver. But the whole reform agenda? Well regarding prison governor autonomy – if you’ve got a really good prison governor in charge with real leadership qualities, who is somebody that the whole team, the whole prison respects – well that is key to a successful prison. But governors get shunted around from prison to prison, there is little continuity. It’s no coincidence that in the better performing private prison sector Directors stay in post for a long time. They are able to establish that continuity and improve standards. Whereas in the public sector which they then get compared to, it’s not a level playing field.”

So what would she do if she were to become Justice Secretary? “For me, you can talk all the reform you want, about the structures and governors and what their powers are. But actually, until you get enough prison staff and reduce the prisoner population so that you can create stable regimes where people can access education and training and get a sense of proper rehabilitation we’ll never resolve the problems that we’ve got.” So if she was in power would she actually drive to reduce the prisoner population? “Yes absolutely,” she says. “We’re responsible for much of the high numbers in our prisons because of the numbers of criminal laws we’ve passed, which creates more offences. And there is sentence creep as well. But if you look at our prisoner population there are people in there who just shouldn’t be in. There are far too many in there with mental health issues, who need treatment. There are vulnerable women in for civil matters who have been led into crime when they’ve been victims of crime. So I think we need to have an honest conversation and be up front about the fact that there are too many people in our prisons.”

Responding to this interview a Ministry of Justice spokesperson said: “The government remains totally committed to legislating on prison reform and will come forward with plans in due course. We also remain committed to legislating on reform of our court system to provide a better and more efficient service. Again, we will come forward with plans in due course.”

 

One prisoner quotes to inside times

You are Punished for using the complaints system We, are told to use the complaints process, but we are not told of the backlash when we do. I am a recall 2-strike lifer and I am in my parole window, but now I’ve been shipped so far from my family by HMP Stoke Heath. I was misled by the Security Department and threatened with nickings if I didn’t go, so I took it on the chin and came here as I could not afford a nicking this close to my parole hearing.

I have to say that Stoke Heath is no place for black men, or even travellers, as it is a very racist jail. I was racially abused in front of staff and nobody came to see me about it when I complained, it was just brushed under the carpet. HMP Stoke Heath is, in my opinion and experience, badly-run and needs to change before they have any more self-harm or suicide attempts.

The IPP contradiction

I got 18 months IPP tariff, I’ve been in 11 years and one month and I’m classed as low risk of reconviction. I can’t lower my risk any more as it only goes to low risk and my probation officer won’t release me. As probation tell IPP prisoners, there could be new Intervention Programmes come out in 10 years’ time, so IPPs get knocked back on parole as guinea pigs.

IPP prisoners won’t get parole as the Probation/Parole board won’t release us. And Probation say it is easier to recall an IPP back to prison as they only have to do paper work once per year, otherwise she needs to do paperwork every week if IPP is released.

IPPs can’t get employment because employers say IPP prisoners are unreliable, [through] no fault of their own, because we can be recalled for no reason, which makes the workforce go down. Unless IPP sentenced prisoners are transferred to fixed term we are stuck.

The lower the IPP tariff, the less serious the crime. So, you should scrap IPP sentences for any tariff of two years and under, and give us fixed tariffs. And that leaves the serious offenders with higher tariffs in the system.


We are sentenced for what we ‘might do’ along with what we did. So in reality, everybody within the United Kingdom, civilians etc. must be sent to prison as they ‘might’ commit a crime, otherwise it’s contradictory to such a sentence.

IPPs can’t be released as risk is too high. A contradiction has occurred again. Cat A prisoners are the most dangerous prisoners in the UK, they present a serious risk to life and limb to all members of society. But Cat A prisoners get released every day, without doing interventions, as they have a release date.

Yet another contradiction, many normal sentenced prisoners get released every day who have far more serious offences, who pose a high risk or who have sex offences/convictions under their belts. But they get a release date.

Also terrorists. They plan to kill millions of people, but they get a release date only to do it again. I’m ex-military. You cannot reform terrorists, their plan is to kill themselves and everybody around them to become a martyr. But they get a release date.

When you look at it, IPP is a very low category of offending, but we get punished for everybody else. Probation say, because five people in our category (now IPP) re-offend, that will automatically make [all] IPPs offend. This is not true.

 

More pressure to release IPPs from former Justice Secretary Ken Clarke

More pressure has been put on the government to address the problem of IPP prisoners after former Justice Secretary Ken Clarke urged ministers to tackle the issue when it emerged that as many as 2,000 remain in London prisons.

Indeterminate Public Protection (IPP) sentences were stopped by Mr Clarke four years ago but he said his reforms had not gone far enough and called for those sentenced before 2012 to have their IPPs removed retrospectively.

“Most lawyers regard IPPs as a stain on the justice system, it is just a question of when some minister has the courage to put up with the morning’s bad press”

Speaking on the BBC’s ‘Inside Out’ programme he said; “Most lawyers regard IPPs as a stain on the justice system, it is just a question of when some minister has the courage to put up with the morning’s bad press. Getting rid of these IPPs was one of my top priorities. I favour tough sentences for people who have been extremely violent but filling prisons up with an enormous open-ended supply of people, sometimes with excessive sentences for what they have actually done, is something I disapproved of.”

The Inside Out programme reported that a severe lack of hearings, and of spaces on the offender behaviour courses IPP prisoners must complete, means 2,000 out of 4,000 prisoners have still not been assessed for release. It is estimated that the backlog will take up to seven years to clear.

A Ministry of Justice spokesman said: “The Chairman of the Parole Board has made a number of recommendations to improve the parole system and reduce the backlog of IPP prisoners. We are considering these proposals and will update on our plans in due course.”

 

Former Justice Secretary Ken Clarke today urged ministers to tackle the issue of prisoners serving indeterminate sentences, as it emerged that as many are 2,000 languish in London jails.

Indeterminate Public Protection (IPP) sentences were banned by Mr Clarke four years ago but he said his reforms had not gone far enough.

He called for those sentenced before 2012 to have their IPPs removed retrospectively. “Most lawyers regard IPPs as a stain on the justice system,” he told the BBC’s Inside Out programme. 

“It is just a question of when some minister has the courage to put up with the morning’s bad press.

“Getting rid of these IPPs was one of my top priorities. I favour tough sentences for people who have been ex-tremely violent but filling prisons up with an enormous open-ended supply of people, sometimes with excessive sentences for what they have actually done, is something I disapproved of.”

Before they can be released, those serving IPP sentences must go before a parole board to prove they are no longer a risk to the public.

However, Inside Out reports that a severe lack of hearings, and of spaces on the offender behaviour courses IPP prisoners must complete, means 2,000 out of 4,000 inmates have still not been assessed for release. It is estimated that the backlog will take up to seven years to clear.

Rapists, murderers and paedophiles were the intended targets of IPPs, introduced by the Labour government in 2003. But some convicted of less serious offences such as fighting and shoplifting have also been imprisoned for public protection and never released.

A Ministry of Justice spokesman said: “The Chairman of the Parole Board has made a number of recommendations to improve the parole system and reduce the backlog of IPP prisoners. We are considering these proposals and will update on our plans in due course.”
Inside Out, BBC1

 


The Parole Board

 has experienced an increase in the demand for oral hearings since the Osborn, Booth and Riley judgment handed down in 2013. This has resulted in delays for a considerable number of prisoners waiting for an oral hearing date. The listing prioritisation framework, which was developed to help us manage the increased volume of cases, currently prioritises recalled determinate sentenced prisoners above most other prisoners when allocating oral hearing dates each month. Unfortunately, this has resulted in the majority of other prisoners experiencing much longer delays before their oral hearing date is set. We recognise that we need to change our current approach in order to ensure fairness across the system.

To address this problem, we have developed 4 trials that we will be piloting from now until the end of March 2017:

1. We will work closer with PPCS to make more effective use of the option of ‘executive release’. Eligible cases will be considered for executive release at an earlier stage of the parole process, before a case is directed to an oral hearing. We hope this will reduce the number of cases waiting in the queue for an oral hearing date and allow prisoners to be released more quickly.

2. We are extending the cut off point for determinate cases with an upcoming Sentence Expiry Date (SED). We currently conclude cases directed to oral hearing if the SED is within 12 weeks’ time of the oral hearing directions. This is because there is insufficient time to schedule an oral hearing before a prisoner will be automatically released. This will now be extended to 24 weeks.

3. We will change the listing prioritisation framework so that prisoners who have 12 months or less before their SED will no longer be prioritised. This means most recall cases will no longer be listed ahead of other sentence types, resulting in a fairer system. A full review of the listings framework will take place by April 2017.

4. We are looking into the possibility of using Ministry of Justice video link rooms across the UK to host hearings for determinate sentence prisoners. Currently, we can only host video link hearings at our London based office which limits our capacity. We hope that by creating regional hubs across the UK, more cases can be heard more swiftly. This will also hopefully ensure prisoners with determinate sentences will not be disadvantaged by the above pilots.

We are taking a flexible approach to these pilots and if any prisoners believes that they have exceptional circumstances that warrant prioritisation of their case they can write to the Parole Board. Such circumstances can include, but are not limited to, medical/mental health issues and/or compassionate reasons for example.

If you believe you are affected by one of the above pilots then we strongly recommend you seek guidance from a legal representative or a member of prison staff.

 

Justice Committee launch inquiry into prison reform – have your say

The House of Commons Justice Committee has launched an inquiry into the Government programme of reforms to prisons on the assumption that, as indicated by the new Justice Secretary, Elizabeth Truss, there will be no substantial change to the programme of reforms including the £1.3bn estate modernisation programme, the creation of reform prisons to give prison governors greater autonomy, and the implementation of Dame Sally Coates’ education review. In doing so they are seeking the views of interested parties.

The Committee is asking for written evidence on the following topics:

1. What should be the purpose(s) of prisons?

How should

 the prison estate modernisation programme and;

 reform prisons proposals best fit these purposes and deal most appropriately with those held?

What should be the roles, responsibilities and accountabilities of

prison staff;

prison governors;

National Offender Management Service;

Ministry of Justice officials and Ministers and;

other agencies and departments;

in creating a modern and effective prison system?

2. What are the key opportunities and challenges of the central components of prison reform so far announced by the Government, and their development and implementation?

3. What can be learnt from existing or past commissioning and procurement arrangements for i) private sector prisons and ii) ancillary prison services which have been outsourced?

4. What principles should be followed in constructing measures of performance for prisons?

5. What can be learnt from

other fields, notably health and education and;

other jurisdictions about the creation of prison trusts or foundations and related performance measures?

6. Are existing mechanisms for regulation and independent scrutiny of prisons fit for purpose?

7. What are the implications for prison reform of

the Transforming Rehabilitation programme and;

devolution of criminal justice budgets now and in the future?

The Committee will be grateful for submissions in response to any or all of the topics above by 30 September 2016. The Committee’s current plans are to conduct a series of sub-inquiries into discrete aspects of prison reform as the Government’s programme develops, and further calls for evidence which will provide an opportunity for more detailed comment as appropriate.

If you would like to make your views on any of the topics above known to the Committee please write to them at Justice Committee, House of Commons, Westminster, London, SW1A 0AA. If you would like fuller information and a copy of the guidelines then the Committee will be happy to send these to you prior to you making your submission.

Please note that your submission should be concise and to the point and the Committee are unable to intervene in individual cases. Submissions are published but if you would like your name and prison number, or your submission, to be kept confidential then you should specify that clearly in your letter. Your correspondence with the Justice Committee is not covered by Rule 39 and may be read by prisons.

 

So my brother has got his parole today in which his inside parole officer and his solicitor are backing him for release he has been in there 10 years and still not heard anything it's so frustratingWhy have they deferred/adjourned it for six months?

Owen

I'm so sorry to hear this. A brave man told me once that living with an ipp is like being buried alive and waiting for your body to stop breathing. Sadly his died. He was over tarrif and to ill to do the courses. Persecution is what you and your brother are suffering from. Keep writing letters, everytime you do you make them pay for keeping him in there. Pick them up on every point they make in their replies. Make it clear that your right to a family life is being engaged because there is no end date. It's agony behind a locked door every night but its also painful for all those family members waiting for them to come out too. The justice secretary needs to be reminded everyday or she will simply look the other way https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v5/ue/1/16/1f622.png

 


I got recalled after 8 weeks cuz I missed a train bk to the hostel but shouldn't have been recalled but took me 6 months for another oral hearing but got released bk to my mums but since then in last 5 yrs no hiccups


My brothers on his tenth year of a 2nd half IPP rec that he got. It's sickening an is only going to get worse.


Sorry to hear that. You're right - where has justice gone? What do IPPs need to do to get out? It seems they can't win whatever they do. xx

Ford I think it suffers from the effects of eleven years' frustration, & he's not a lawyer, so just speaking his truth as best he can


So my son's solicitor is no longer doing prison law and has passed all his cases to someone else. ...his parole is in 3 weeks time and no one has been in touch with my son ....he is really struggling now and after everyone had agreed he should be released. ..his probation officers has now said he should do yet another course ...he's gutted and I'm worried sick about him .... Thank you John Turner I just don't know what to do. ...I need someone to help my son ...11 years now 18 month tariff. ...he can't do another


Tracey - sorry to hear this. I'm a specialist prison lawyer with a particular interest in IPP parole. Let me know if I can be of help

Abbott Omg this is outrageous Tracey I hope and pray someone can help your son this is so wrong. Xx

Again! (sighing) wants to speak to you Michael... (Michael Is a manager) "oh who's she never spoke to her before" (woman says..) oh she's just moaning as usual, just tell her to write her complaint in, shel go on a bit but itl get rid of her! (then laugBBBBrackenbury
I'm shocked! Nothing surprises me anymore!..... Here's a little insight into how much probation give a shit about any of our loved ones!... Ring up this morning for one final beg for a manager to meet with me to discuss their wrong doings towards my partner.. I get hang on il put you on hold a sec... Puts me on hold.. Or so she thinks!!.. I can hear every bloody word!!
Again! (sighing) wants to speak to you Michael... (Michael Is a manager) "oh who's she never spoke to her before" (woman says..) oh she's just moaning as usual, just tell her to write her complaint in, shel go on a bit but itl get rid of her! (then laughs!)

HMP WAYLAND Once again loool well I don't blame the prisoners they just need to be heard they are treated badly and I don't think they care about the prisoners they have had enough so what do they expect of them... Zing Yeah lack of release plan i have come across years ago, also probation officer changes near parole i have seen, because they are not familiar with the prisoner. I beleive they change probation bear parole on purpose not sure
The shock horror in her voice when she comes back on the line and here's me saying... I heard every last f**kin word of that you spineless cow!.. Went mad is an understatement, told her il be taking her job... NOW they a
Morning everyone,There are numerous campaigners out there all doing a fabulous job. But i just want to say a big thank you to Katherine Gleeson who has always been both realistic and relentless in her approach. Your awesome katherineThank you x

 

Jackie Szulimowski - HMP & YOI Low Newton -


IPP Sentence


I stood in the dock,

the judge said to me

“Eighteen months, with an IPP”

“Wow” I thought, that’s not a lot

But ten years later, still in jail I rot

Nine years over tariff

Ten months over parole

Still here I rot in this hell-hole

Victim awareness – DBT

Women and anger – LNV

Four long years on the DSPD

Now nine months on PIPE

I feel I’m stagnating

All courses completed

So why am I still waiting?

IPP sentence now abolished

But what about me

And the four to five thousand

Who long to be free?

Enough is enough

How much more can we take?

We’re only human

So please, give us a break

The IPP sentence

Was one big, big mistake

 

http://www.insidetime.org/shambolic/




http://www.insidetime.org/ipp-sentence/
Again! (sighing) wants to speak to you Michael... (Michael Is a manager) "oh who's she never spoke to her before" (woman says..) oh she's just moaning as usual, just tell her to write her complaint in, shel go on a bit but itl get rid of her! (then laughs!)

The shock horror in her voice when she comes back on the line and here's me saying... I heard every last f**kin word of that you spineless cow!.. Went mad is an understatement, told her il be taking her job... NOW they all

.. Again! (sighing) wants to speak to you Michael... (Michael Is a manager) "oh who's she never spoke to her before" (woman says..) oh she's just moaning as usual, just tell her to write her complaint in, shel go on a bit but itl get rid of her! (then laughs!) The shock horror in her voice when she comes back on the line and here's me saying... I heard every last f**kin word of that you spineless cow!.. Went
.. Again! (sighing) wants to speak to you Michael... (Michael Is a manager) "oh who's she never spoke to her before" (woman says..) oh she's just moaning as usual, just tell her to write her complaint in, shel go on a bit but itl get rid of her! (then laughs
 

The shock horror in her voice when she comes back on the line and here's me saying... I heard every last f**kin word of that you spineless cow!.. Went mad is an understatement, told her il be taking her job... NOW they all wanna be helpf